Skarnvald Hand Forged 51CrV4 Spring Steel Grosses Messer with Side Nagel & Clipped Point | About 39 Inches Overall | Pale Wood Scales and Blunt Training Blade | HEMA Gift | RK-3022

A grosses messer is a large single edged sword that wears a knife’s handle, and this one is built the way the surviving pieces are. Two brass rivets pass through a full tang, pale wood scales sit proud of the steel, and a nagel stands out from the flat of the hilt. There is no cross on it at all. The nagel is the whole of the hand defence, which is what the German sources assume when they tell you to hang the hand and let the flat take the blow.

The blade is blunted 51CrV4 spring steel with a clipped point, the angled back edge at the tip that gives the messer its outline and lets it thrust without a symmetrical point. The edges carry a broad flat land rather than a grind and the point is rounded off. About 39 inches overall, hand made so it varies a little piece to piece.

If the German messer plays are new to you, read the messer guide first, then blunt and sharp training swords, because a blunt trainer and a cutting messer do very different jobs. The rest of the line sits in HEMA messers.

Specifications

Everything we can state about this piece without guessing at it. Lengths are approximate because every one is forged and fitted by hand.

Lecküchner, Meyer and the messer in the German school

The messer is the best documented one handed sword in the German tradition. Johannes Lecküchner wrote more than four hundred folios on it in 1478, and he did it by mapping the longsword system onto a single hand. The master strikes are there under messer names, the hangings are there, the winding at the bind is there. Anyone who has worked the Liechtenauer longsword will recognise most of what the messer asks for, which is why so many clubs teach it second.

Joachim Meyer carried the messer through to 1570 and treated it as a full course in its own right, with its own guards and its own cutting sequences. Between them you have a system covering the bind, the wind, the disarm and the wrestle at the sword.

The nagel is what makes the messer a messer in handling terms. It projects from one flat only, so the sword has a strong side and a weak side, and the plays exploit that. Bind on the nagel side and the hand is covered. Bind on the other and it is not, so the sources keep bringing the true edge back across the line. A piece with a nagel only is the honest way to learn that.

Spring steel, the nagel and a clipped point that stays blunt

This blade is 51CrV4 spring steel hardened to 49 to 52 HRC, not the 1095 high carbon we use on cutting blades. Spring steel at this hardness bends and returns instead of taking a set or snapping under a hard bind, and that is the one property that matters in a sparring piece. A 1095 blade at 54 to 58 HRC is harder and right for tatami, but too hard to lean on in a bind.

Flex on this one is the medium tier. The market grades trainers light, medium, strong and stiff, and a one handed messer sits in the middle. It has enough give to stay pleasant to receive and enough backbone that it does not wobble when you wind.

The clipped point is ground as a false edge along the last few inches of the back, then blunted like the rest of the blade. On a sharp messer the clip lets it thrust and makes the back edge cuts bite. It is kept on a blunt because the geometry changes how the last third behaves, and a rounded spearpoint would not teach you the same sword.

On tournament tips, be clear eyed. The Berlin HEMA Cup gear rules ask for a spatulated or rolled tip with a minimum diameter of 1.5 cm. This point is blunted and rounded off, not spatulated to that width, so read your own event’s ruleset and fit a tip protector where it is required. More on how the tiers and the rules work in HEMA sword flex explained.

Engraving, runes and your own design

Use the rune converter on this page to turn a name, a date or a short phrase into Elder Futhark and we will cut it into the steel or the grip. If you would rather have your own design than a rune line, choose your own design in the engraving option above the add to cart button and tell us where it goes. Where a piece already carries an engraved design, your chosen engraving replaces it rather than sitting alongside it. More on the engraving page.

With no pommel and no cross there are two natural places for a rune line. The flat of the blade just forward of the scales takes a short name or date cleanly, and the nagel will take a very short mark. Tell us which you want and we will lay it out to read edge down.

Handling and balance

A messer of this size handles like a heavy single handed sword with the balance pushed forward. That is deliberate. The plays want the blade to carry itself through a cut and sit where you leave it, so the mass sits ahead of the hand, and there is no pommel here to counterweight it anyway.

The scales are shaped so the hand sits back against the rear rivet rather than sliding forward into the nagel. Most people find it wants a relaxed hold with the thumb along the flat, which is what the sources show for the messer hangings. Coming from longsword, the recovery feels slower than the length suggests, because no pommel mass pulls the tip back.

We do not publish a weight or a point of balance for this piece. The photographs carry no scale and every one is finished by hand, so a printed figure would be a guess dressed up as a specification. If you need a number for a club inventory, weigh it on arrival.

Care

Spring steel rusts. Wipe the blade down after every session, especially the area around the nagel and the rivets where sweat collects and sits. A light film of mineral oil, gun oil or camellia oil on a rag is enough, and it wants doing after use rather than once a month.

The wood scales take a barely damp cloth and nothing more. Do not soak them and do not store the piece in a sealed sleeve while it is still damp. Check the two brass rivets every few months by twisting the scales gently, because hand fitted rivets settle in the first season.

Knock back any burr raised by hard contact with a fine file so it does not become a cutting edge by accident. The full routine is in the knife care guide.

Made in the Czech Republic

Made by hand in the Czech Republic and imported by Ransack Viking. Nothing here is drop shipped out of an importer catalogue straight to a customer. Every one is checked for hilt tightness, pommel seating and blade straightness at our North Babylon, New York warehouse, and ships from there. Shipping in the United States is free, returns run for seven days, and the lifetime warranty against defects in the forging, the grind, the heat treat and the fittings has no end date and needs no receipt.

The messers in this line come from the same hands as the longswords and the sideswords, which is why the rivet work and the satin finish match across the range. If you order a messer and an arming sword together they will feel like a set rather than two unrelated purchases.

A note on handmade variation

This is hand forged. It is not machine made, not cast and not bulk produced, so what arrives will not be a pixel for pixel copy of the photograph on this page.

On a messer that means the grain and tone of the wood scales will differ, the nagel may stand a little more or less proud, and the brass carries its own file marks under the satin. The blade profile and the clipped point are consistent.

Frequently asked questions

Is this sharp

No. It is a blunt trainer with a flat land of about 3 mm on the edge and a rounded point. It is made for sparring and drill, not for cutting. We sell sharp messers in 1095 high carbon separately and label them plainly as cutting swords.

Why does it have no crossguard

Because the historical grosses messer often did not have one. The nagel is the hand defence, and it defends one side only. That asymmetry is the point of the type.

Can I use it in a tournament

That depends entirely on the event. Read the ruleset you are entering. The Berlin HEMA Cup asks for a spatulated or rolled tip of at least 1.5 cm, and this point is rounded rather than spatulated to that width. We never claim tournament legality without naming the ruleset.

What steel is it and why not 1095

51CrV4 spring steel at 49 to 52 HRC. It bends and returns under a hard bind instead of taking a set or breaking. 1095 at 54 to 58 HRC is harder and better for cutting, which is why the sharps in this line use it.

Does it come with a scabbard

No. Nothing in this part of the range ships with a scabbard.

How long does engraving take

Engraving is done here in the United States after the piece arrives from the Czech Republic, so it adds a few days to dispatch. Text and runes are 19 dollars, a symbol is 39 dollars and a family crest is 49 dollars.

What is in the box

• One Skarnvald grosses messer trainer, about 39 inches overall
• A light coat of protective oil on the blade for transit
• Care and warranty details for the piece
• Ransack Viking packaging, inspected and shipped from North Babylon, New York

Explore the range

More single handed steel sits in HEMA messers and HEMA arming swords. If you want two hands on the hilt, look at feders or the wider messers shelf. Everything we have written on steel, flex and buying your first trainer is collected in the guides hub.

Also in this part of the catalogue

Sitting alongside it in the catalogue are Jarnfeld sharp langes messer, about 38 inches overall, Brenvald langes messer, about 37 inches overall, Brunhak langes messer, about 37 inches overall, Kaldrast hanger sabre, about 36 inches overall and Skarnvik arming sword, about 36 inches overall.

See the HEMA messer category and the HEMA sword hub for the full spread, and the custom sword builder if none of them is right.